Driving the Dodge Hornet, BMW M8 and the Supra vs. Z Comparison Test

the Autoblog Podcast, Editor-in-Chief Greg Migliore is joined by Road Test Editor Zac Palmer and News Editor Joel Stocksdale. The trio kick things off with an in-depth discussion about the recent comparison test between the 2023 Toyota GR Supra and the 2023 Nissan Z Performance. They chat about Joel's sidebar and tell you all about how the test went down. After that, it's time to get into the cars everybody's been driving recently, including the 2023 BMW M8 Competition Coupe, 2023 Dodge Durango Hellcat, 2023 Dodge Hornet and 2023 Nissan Armada. They wrap things up by spending someone's money on a soon-to-come used car purchase.

Send us your questions for the Mailbag and Spend My Money at: Podcast@Autoblog.com.

"> the Autoblog Podcast, Editor-in-Chief Greg Migliore is joined by Road Test Editor Zac Palmer and News Editor Joel Stocksdale. The trio kick things off with an in-depth discussion about the recent comparison test between the 2023 Toyota GR Supra and the 2023 Nissan Z Performance. They chat about Joel's sidebar and tell you all about how the test went down. After that, it's time to get into the cars everybody's been driving recently, including the 2023 BMW M8 Competition Coupe, 2023 Dodge Durango Hellcat, 2023 Dodge Hornet and 2023 Nissan Armada. They wrap things up by spending someone's money on a soon-to-come used car purchase.

Send us your questions for the Mailbag and Spend My Money at: Podcast@Autoblog.com.

In this episode of the Autoblog Podcast, Editor-in-Chief Greg Migliore is joined by Road Test Editor Zac Palmer and News Editor Joel Stocksdale. The trio kick things off with an in-depth discussion about the recent comparison test between the 2023 Toyota GR Supra and the 2023 Nissan Z Performance. They chat about Joel's sidebar and tell you all about how the test went down. After that, it's time to get into the cars everybody's been driving recently, including the 2023 BMW M8 Competition Coupe, 2023 Dodge Durango Hellcat, 2023 Dodge Hornet and 2023 Nissan Armada. They wrap things up by spending someone's money on a soon-to-come used car purchase.

Send us your questions for the Mailbag and Spend My Money at: Podcast@Autoblog.com.

Transcript

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GREG MIGLIORE: Welcome back to the "Autoblog" podcast. I'm Greg Migliore. We have a great show for you this week. Nissan Z versus Toyota Supra, cagematch, comparo, you name it. We faced off two of the modern versions of the iconic sports cars from the 1980s and '90s. And with that, I'll bring in the two gentlemen who did the test driving for this. That's Road Test editor, Zac Palmer, and News Editor, Joel Stocksdale. How we doing there, Zac?

ZAC PALMER: Oh, I am doing mighty fine this week. How are you?

GREG MIGLIORE: I'm OK, I'm OK. Feel a bit better, breathe a bit better. How about you there, Joel?

JOEL STOCKSDALE: Not too shabby, yeah.

GREG MIGLIORE: All right. So we have a great show for you guys this week. After we get through the Supra versus Z, we'll talk about the BMW M8 Competition Coupe, the Hellcat Durango, postscript here are the Dodge Hornet. Spent some more time with it this week, and we'll see if we can get some other things. We also will spend your money. So pretty jam-packed show, it's July, it's a good week to just kind of really get through a lot of the things we've been driving, just sort of clear the deck, if you will.

Yeah. It was a good week for F1. I really enjoyed kind of just sitting on the couch and watching Silverstone. I feel like it was kind of a weird day or a weird weekend as far as the weather, so it was an interesting race, let's put it that way.

And it was actually, I don't know about you, Zac, but I tend to record most of my F1 viewing. In this case, I just sat there and watched it live. It-- like, when it went-- when the lights went off at 9:55, I was just, let's go. It really changes things.

ZAC PALMER: I was doing the same thing, because we only have a five-hour time change being in the UK. And yeah, I watched that thing from start to finish. I watched the qualifying.

GREG MIGLIORE: Mm-hmm.

ZAC PALMER: Every bit of it was, honestly, like heart-pounding fun.

GREG MIGLIORE: It was good, yeah.

ZAC PALMER: I mean, Lando almost took pole from max in quali.

GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah.

ZAC PALMER: And then boom, out of nowhere, into the first corner, here comes Lando screaming around in the McLaren. They were running that awesome chrome and black livery just for the British GP. That was a really, really fun race. And I never really expected Lando to actually win the race, but it was fun to see him out in front for a lap or two, and then Max comes back and says, thank you very much, I'll take the-- I'll take the victory.

And, but, no, it was, it was exciting all the way through. A lot of passing, a lot of really, really great racing. And, yeah. And then we got some more fun right after that with the Nyck de Vries and Daniel Ricciardo switch-up. I don't know what you think about that.

GREG MIGLIORE: Well, you know what I like? When it comes to F1, and frankly, even just sports in general, I like it when some of the-- the names are back out there. We all know who Daniel Ricciardo is, right? So the fact that he's back on the grid, his suit is hungry, I love that. I think that's awesome. I mean, it reminds me a little bit, even though he's much younger, to sort of like the late career renaissance of Fernando Alonso.

Like, he's still somewhat competitive. He is competitive, he just maybe doesn't quite have the car. So it's just another name of a talented driver who you could, identify with isn't the right word, but it's like it's somebody when you're watching, it's oh, wait, there's Ricardo. It's another marker on the grid that's exciting. And sounds like in some of these tire tests, he still has it. He just--

ZAC PALMER: Oh, yeah.

GREG MIGLIORE: --it's-- he's only 34. So F1 drivers, when they're still with it, it seems like they can really be at it until early 40 even, your mid 40s.

ZAC PALMER: Look at Alonso right now.

GREG MIGLIORE: Exactly. Alonso is, I mean, he's also supremely talented. One of the purest drivers of his generation. But I'm excited. I also kind of oddly like the race at the, is it the Hungaroring as they call it? It's one of the many on that circuit that I find, the European leg of it, that I just think it's--

There's a lot of-- it's just the dramatic kind of late July weather you see over there. I just think it's a cool race to watch. It's up there with Spa-Francorchamps, if you will, in Belgium, as far as just really interesting F1 races.

ZAC PALMER: Yeah, if we keep having this trend of rain during races and rain during qualifying, I think that I'll be real happy, because that is really throwing a wrench in things and making things perhaps more interesting than they would be otherwise. But no, I'm happy to see Danny Ric back in a car, too.

GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah.

ZAC PALMER: I-- Nyck de Vries sort of rubbed me the wrong way as soon as he got that seat, and he was like, I'm going to lead this team. I'm going to show Yuki how to do it. And I'm like, OK, man, like--

GREG MIGLIORE: Yuki's been faster than you, dude.

ZAC PALMER: Yuki's been in the car a couple years, he's sort of the de facto leader of the team, and you're just coming in here going to run roughshod over him a little. Then you kind of lose out to Yuki every single race and every qualifying. So that said, that was one of the shortest stints in F1 I think I've ever seen. I don't even think he got half a season in, which is wild, but also very typical of the Red Bull way.

GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah.

ZAC PALMER: You either produce or you're gone. You get no, no chance, so--

GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah.

ZAC PALMER: --that's what it is. And now Sergio is on the hot seat a little bit, too.

GREG MIGLIORE: Well, I mean, if I'm Sergio and you're thinking, OK, I'm feeling OK, I'm probably the closest to Max of anybody else really consistently all season, but oh, hey, by the way, who's on the farm team, if you will? Oh, it's Ricardo, OK. I mean, if that's not pressure, what is? And I kind of love it just as a fan. It's like, this is great. It'll be interesting to see how things shake out next season, if you will.

ZAC PALMER: Yeah. The guy that used to have your seat is now on the farm team and just waiting to bring him up.

GREG MIGLIORE: So I've heard nothing about this, but you think Kimi Raikkonen, there's any chance he's back at any point?

ZAC PALMER: No way.

GREG MIGLIORE: Do you think he's done?

ZAC PALMER: Absolutely no way.

GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah.

ZAC PALMER: I think he's happy to go live out some Finnish dreams rallying and showing up and drinking at his bar and just in general, having a good time. Like, it's-- he almost seemed like he hated F1, but loved it at the same time while he was racing. Such a weird dynamic from him. But I think that he retired and he's done for good. I don't see him back on the grid.

GREG MIGLIORE: One of my favorite drivers, how about Vettel?

ZAC PALMER: Vettel? Vettel's a weird one. I feel like as soon as he saw how fast that Aston Martin was this year, he was probably kicking himself, like, oh, my god, I just retired and left what is looking like the second fastest car on the grid. I guarantee you, he was having some second thoughts there. And just the fact that he was, I don't know if you saw some photos of him, but he was hanging out with Ricciardo while he was doing the testing.

GREG MIGLIORE: I didn't see that, OK.

ZAC PALMER: Yeah, yeah, he was he was in the garage with Red Bull, which was interesting. I don't know if he comes back as a driver, but I can pretty much guarantee that Vettel is not done in F1. He will come back as a team principal, engineer, somebody on the pit wall, some sort of an advisor. I can almost guarantee he will be back in the sport. He already is. He's hanging out with Ricardo in the pits, so.

GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah, it's true. I mean, Lance Stroll has been OK up and down this year, and he's been there for a few years. But Alonso and Vettel, I mean, I don't know. That sounds like a--

ZAC PALMER: What a dream team right there.

GREG MIGLIORE: Exactly, exactly. It's a dream team from 2015 or 2012, but--

ZAC PALMER: Seriously.

GREG MIGLIORE: They're still-- I bet they'd both be competitive. They wouldn't be backmarkers.

ZAC PALMER: Not at all, especially in that car.

GREG MIGLIORE: Exactly. All right, so that car, Toyota Supra versus the Nissan Z. We like to do comparison tests around here at autoblog. We think readers, listeners, you guys like to consume them. This was a multi-day test that you guys conducted. We have a winner, obviously.

If you've been on the site in the last week, you can see the Supra won. And both cars have their strengths and weaknesses. But why don't we just talk first of all-- segue here a little bit to some of the criteria you guys used to parse out who reigned supreme here.

ZAC PALMER: Yeah. So just going into some of the categories. I mean, we obviously have all of the driving categories, especially for a two-door sports coupe comparison test. Those are the most important. So acceleration, braking, handling, steering, ride, gearbox. And then just the all-important driving feel. How does it make you feel?

GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah.

ZAC PALMER: That sort of fizz, do you have it or not? But we also take into account a little more than that. These are cars that could be used as a daily, so you gotta look at the infotainment, the interior quality, kind of storage do you have in the back. And all of these things, there are big pluses and minuses between the Supra and the Z. But like you said, the Supra does ultimately win out. And we can get into a bunch of the reasons why here.

GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah. All right, so let's bring in Joel here. One of the things that I thought was interesting is, you wrote, I wouldn't call it a case for the for the Z, but not a dissent like this is the Supreme Court, because obviously, you guys agreed on the verdict, but you wrote kind of like a good testimonial, if you will, of like why the Z could be the car for you if you're an enthusiast.

And quite frankly, I kind of quite agree with you. Emotionally, I like the Z car way more. That's just like-- it strikes my like generation. The styling fits with me. So much about it I like, even though metrically, you can see how an automobile falls shorter than some of its competitors. So kind of like I guess take us to the Z, if you will.

JOEL STOCKSDALE: Yeah, so Zac and I unanimously agree that the Toyota Supra was by far the better vehicle. Overall driving dynamics, heck, even just the way the they sound.

GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah.

JOEL STOCKSDALE: But one of the things about the Z, is the fact that it's actually a bit of a bargain, especially compared with the Supra. The Supra is fairly pricey. And with the Z, no matter which Z you get, you get the same twin turbo-- you get the same basic package. You get the twin turbo V6 manual transmission, or an automatic, if you want it.

And that great body and rear wheel drive. And you can get all of that, just the whole, just the basics, for about $42,000. And that undercuts the Supra by quite a large margin. The closest the Supra gets is a few $1,000 more, and you're not even getting the one with the six cylinder. You're getting the four cylinder one that is at a big horsepower disadvantage. It only makes 255 horsepower, the four cylinder Supra. Whereas with the Z, for less money, you're getting a 400 horsepower six cylinder.

Now granted, the cheap suit, the cheap Z is missing out on a couple things. Like, it doesn't get a limited slip differential. It gets slightly softer suspension tuning. But you're still getting a lot of the same goodness.

And while modifying cars is not for everybody, understandably, if you are into modifying cars, and I think a lot of Z and Supra buyers would be, you have a lot of money left over to make the car exactly the way you want it and fix some of the things that Nissan maybe didn't get quite right. For instance, the suspension was not one of our favorite things on the Z. You go with one of the cheaper models, you've got a lot of money left over for a nice set of springs and shocks or coil overs.

Heck, even on the base one, you're saving enough money that you could probably pick up a limited slip differential and have that installed by a shop or something, or do it yourself, if you're feeling ambitious or just handy with a wrench. So I think there's very much a case to be made for the Z, even if we didn't feel like it was the overall best choice out of the box.

GREG MIGLIORE: So it's interesting, two of the points that you raise right there are ways that previous winners in our different comparison tests, like, I'm thinking of Kia Soul, for example, design in the engine have carried, like they've resonated with sort of our staff, if you will. And that's been enough to pull the either to wins or competitive second places in group tests. This is obviously a head to head.

But when you talk about that, the design, and then that motor that you could get, I'm really intrigued. To me, that's as a consumer, you've already got me like 2/3 of the way there, let me put it that way. I like how it looks and I could-- that's the motor I could get? OK, and it costs this much. Now obviously, as an enthusiast, you want to drill down a bit deeper. You want that suspension feeling.

If the car's all over the road or it's too rough, and the Supra is clearly a tool, it really is. That's where you start to fall short. That's where, obviously, metrically if you will, when you're sort of trying to assign points and come up with a verdict that's more than just based on emotion, that's where these things come into play.

Let's talk about the Supra. So much of a build-up just going back even 10 years. Remember that like FT1 concept they rolled out in Detroit to like, I think it was '13, and it's been building since then. It's one of the bigger, more extended rollouts. It's finally here.

It looks amazing. Some people think it looks amazing. It's-- but there's some controversy, too. Some people are like, well, they did it with BMW to get it here. And I think there's some-- some enthusiasts don't think that's a good thing. I don't have a problem with it, but some people do.

So my impression of it, and I'm curious if you guys, if this is like a thought process that helped it win, is that it really is very purpose-driven. It's such a tool. It's very good to be at home at the track, that those chassis dynamics, the braking, the acceleration, that's just all there's so much in spades, that it's going to sort of defeat its closest rivals. So, I mean, you guys tell me how this thing sort of pull off the win.

ZAC PALMER: The Supra very much does feel like a sports car. It 100% feels like yes, like you said, you could take it to a track, have a great time with it right out of the box. The Z, much less so.

GREG MIGLIORE: Mm-hmm.

ZAC PALMER: The chassis, well, I wouldn't go so far as to call it a grand tourer, but it is much more slanted that way than--

GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah.

ZAC PALMER: --Supra being very extreme sports car. Honestly, I think it benefits a lot from a lot of the BMW things that it gets. I don't know that Toyota would have developed musical inline six engine for this thing from the ground up. And nobody makes better inline six engines than BMW does. Let's throw it in the Supra.

GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah.

ZAC PALMER: And that makes that car incredible. I mean, the Z might have like the a tiniest bit more punch. It really did feel just a little bit quicker when we were driving them back to back. But the torque curve of that Supra, the sound of the Supra, the smoothness and silkiness of that engine, if you're someone to nerd out on a powertrain and you really want that feel, you're going to like the Supra's engine more.

Maybe if you're more of a Mopar or American muscle type of person, you're going to like that Z engine, because it just gives you that just like super low down punch that just smacks. Other thing, I mean, just everything about the Supra is just more precise and smaller tolerances. You go to the gearbox. Like, the gearbox of the Z, a bit sloppy compared to the Supra. Really, really precise accurate gates. The throws feel a lot better.

Just everything about it is more satisfying to use. You can go to the chassis, as well. So much tighter. The entire platform in general feels more rigid than the Z does. And that's where it sort of just comes into focus that the Supra is a very complete sports car and the Z just doesn't quite get you there.

It's-- I know that Joel and I were chatting about this when we were actually doing the comparison test, but the Z feels more like a Mopar versus the Supra feels more like a Camaro, in that you got sort of Supra, sorry, sports car versus muscle car here. And it's not to that great of a degree, I wouldn't say, but the comparison still rings true in the way that they drive and comport themselves.

So if you're somebody that's like, yeah, Hellcat for life, maybe you're more of a Z guy. But if you're like, oh, man, I really love that SS1 LE or any of those super precise sports cars, I think you're going to like the Supra more. And that's-- it's a way to do that sort of American versus Japan comparison.

JOEL STOCKSDALE: Yeah. And just some other thoughts on like Supra, one of the things that I think is funny, is that as much as much as it is a BMW, I feel that Toyota has actually improved on a lot of things that BMW hasn't been able to get quite right. The steering feel is a little better on the Supra. It's got a nicer feeling, kind of skinny steering wheel. It's got a tighter manual transmission than some of the BMWs we've driven.

Just a couple of weeks after or just like a week or so after our comparison, we had a BMW M2 that we were circulating around. And it didn't feel like it shifted quite as tightly. It didn't feel-- it didn't have as much steering feel. I think the Supra actually sounds better, too. Toyota really tuned the exhaust nicely on the Supra.

And between the two cars, the Supra is just much more confidence-inspiring. It's much more responsive to everything that you do. The littlest steering inputs, the littlest throttle inputs. One of the things that's so nice, is that you're not waiting at all for the turbos to kick in. It feels-- it feels super linear and responsive.

The Z really has a big turbo kick, which it can be fun. It feels like-- it feels like an underrated engine. And BMW engines feel-- tend to feel underrated. And the Z feels even that much more. But the Z, everything about it just didn't feel quite as tied together quite as well. The suspension tended to kind of heave and wasn't quite as controlled. The whole thing feels a little bit heavier and a little bit slower.

It's got a-- the nose feels a little bit heavier. Things like a really long clutch and kind of a sloppy gearbox in comparison. They're all things that when you are wanting to drive enthusiastically and quickly, it's hard to feel like the Z is there for you. Whereas, the Supra is just-- it's just ready to go at all times and confidence-inspiring.

Although, I will say, the Supra is quite tail happy. I'd say more so than the Z. Even going through some corners, like highway on ramps and stuff that have expansion joints and stuff, if it catches it just right, it kind of wants to shift the back end out a little bit. And that can be a little bit of a surprise when the rest of the time, you felt very confident in this car and then it's like, oh, it could still bite you. But yeah, just overall, the Supra is-- it's an extremely well put together package.

GREG MIGLIORE: It's interesting when you talk about the Supra, like overall sort of strengths and excellence, if you will, to me, you kind of want to go back and look at the development of the two cars. So you've got the Supra, which was done in partnership with BMW. This is basically how Toyota does sports cars right now, when you think about it.

They look to Subaru to partner with the BRZ in the 86. So it's-- that's kind of their template. Then Nissan took the Z, which was aged, if you will. I mean, they let that thing go for years. Decades, you could argue. And they totally redid it, but it's still almost-- it's like technically, it's still part of that previous generation. They just totally redid it.

As car enthusiasts, we sort of try to get very esoteric about, well, this is the new generation, it ended here, it stopped here, and away we go. We look at things like the platform, the engine, all those different criteria, almost medically, surgically. And sort of like almost with the Mustang, technically, this isn't a 100% new generation of car.

So part of me thinks it's like, well, the Supra had BMW helping it, and it is this whole new creation. Whereas, you've got the Z, which is kind of piggybacking off a car from the Bush administration from literally 20 something years ago. It's in some ways, it's interesting it's even this competitive.

ZAC PALMER: Yeah. They really have done a lot to freshen it up to make it look-- it's got all the screens, it's got that fresh design. But you will notice things. You look at small things, like the window switches, the door handles, the heated seat controls, the trunk release, the dash gauges. So many things that, oh, hey, that's from the 370Z. And you can sort of tell that it's not an all new car.

And it would have it would have benefited, I think, from an all new chassis design using-- obviously, what we have now, is much, much better components to create a more rigid platform, which is honestly, I think a lot of what helps the Supra do what it does so well. But, yeah, I mean, that's just not the way that they went with the Z. Obviously, that would have cost a lot more money to do that. But here we are in the Supra 1.

GREG MIGLIORE: For what it, is I mean, we know that the Z isn't going to have some everlasting life, if you will. This was they wanted to get an internal combustion sports car engine out before that era closes. And in that sense, I think they succeeded. They just want something that's very good, credible, and get it out there.

So tell me about the tests. Like, what time did you guys start in the morning? What did you do? Where the hell were you guys a couple weeks ago, while ostensibly you were working? And what was going on? Tell me about this.

ZAC PALMER: Where the hell were we? We were in Hell. Actually, technically, Hell, Michigan, which is a real place. I'm not making that up or anything. Yeah, no, so we woke up, left right around the end of rush hour hopefully, and got out there right around 10:00 o'clock in the morning, spent probably like the first two to three hours driving around doing all of our dynamic testing.

Because we didn't do any track testing for this. It was it was all on road stuff. So we just mapped out some of the best driving roads in Michigan. There aren't a lot of them around here, but where we were is definitely where you can have the most fun and actually exercise a car. After that, we did some highway testing.

So we went from there to Ann Arbor, which was sort of just a way to get from the dynamic testing to the city testing. But there's a bit of highway in between there, so we can test out the adaptive cruise control of the Z, check out the lane centering, just how it rides on the highway, just so we can get a full test of it.

And then after that, we did our city testing. So we drove all up and down around Ann Arbor. They have terrible, terrible roads there, which is one of the reasons why I wanted us to go there. We can really check out a car's low speed ride, how easy is the clutch and transmission to use, and a lot of traffic, tight city streets, visibility. Just a good way to hit all of these points of a car in which you might actually find yourself in when you daily drive it or you drive it you know somewhere to go have fun with it.

And yeah, we swapped cars many times throughout the day. We had lunch. We had some good tacos. Had some great discussions over tacos. Chela's in Ann Arbor, I can highly recommend it. But yeah, at the end of the day, we swapped one more time and took one more long highway drive home. And I think by that time, we had we had pretty much had a winner, but at least in our in our minds and our hearts.

But yeah, then we got back and filled out our pretty detailed score sheet and both of us came out with fairly similar results. Supra won by a good amount. It wasn't a complete landslide, but it was pretty sizable and decisive victory, I think for the Supra.

GREG MIGLIORE: Sounds good. All right, well, we've discussed this at length. Any final thoughts here on either car, testing, surprises? The floor is yours, gentlemen.

ZAC PALMER: I would-- I would honestly put my money where my mouth is. If I was looking to buy a new car today, I would really consider the manual Supra. I really, really love that thing, specifically the manual. Great transmission. Everything else great that I've said about it. It is a vehicle that I would actually put in my own garage, final thought.

GREG MIGLIORE: All right, how about you there, Joel?

JOEL STOCKSDALE: Yeah, the Supra is really good. And I was a-- I've had a bit of a love hate relationship with it, in the sense that I love the FT1 concept when it came out. I was really a bit disappointed with the specs and the heavy BMW influence when it was released-- when it was revealed in production form.

But having since driven it, I've really come around to it. That being said, if I had money in this segment and was looking for kind of a rear drive sports car, I think I might go with a Camaro instead of either of these. Because the Camaro is really, really good. And I actually looked it up when I was working on my sort of alternative take on the comparison.

And you can actually get a Camaro 1LE, or no, not 1LE, LT1. Man, GM has way too many letter number combinations out there. Camaro LT1, you can actually get for just under $40,000, which makes it even cheaper than the base Z. And the Camaro, I think the chassis and suspension tuning and stuff on that I would say is even better than Z.

And then you get that really sweet small block, and a really sweet shifter in it, too. I mean, I've just been a really big fan of this generation of Camaro. It's been-- it's a really good car that I think sometimes gets overlooked in favor of jokes about it looking like an old car and not having any visibility, which that latter one, you can kind of say about Subaru, as well.

ZAC PALMER: Definitely.

JOEL STOCKSDALE: Yeah. I really like the Camaro, and it's actually a surprisingly good deal. So I think actually I would go with that.

GREG MIGLIORE: Camaro sales are suddenly looking pretty strong I noticed-- I looked at some of the sales reports through the first and second quarter here. People are realizing closing time, let's go. They're starting to snap them up. It's a very good car. It's-- you named some of its downsides, if you will, but I mean, those are sort of true of most sports cars.

And it's interesting, right now I'm looking at-- like if I wanted at this point a garage car that I would maybe daily drive in the summer, but just be something fun to have, but wouldn't have to be the most practical, that's where I start to think of what would I want to do for fun on a Sunday afternoon. And that's where it could be vintage, it could be all sorts of different things.

But I tend to lean a little more on a newer side. That's where hey, a Mustang or a Camaro or a Supra or a Z, that's a lot of fun. What do you want to do on a Sunday from say late March to early October here? Driving one of these things on some open roads is probably more rewarding than watching the Lions. So it's-- that's what these things are supposed to be. They're supposed to be fun.

All right, so if you enjoyed this comparable breakdown, there's a great video shot by these guys. Of course, our longtime producer, Amr Sayour, he did a great job. Check that out. So we've got a video for it. Both these stories are on the site. Very easily findable. So check those out, get in the comments, let us know which one you think should have won. We'd love to hear from you.

And so, we've definitely got a thorough show for you today, so we're going to bag through a bunch of different things here on the reviews side. We'll try to do these somewhat quickly, if you will, kind of fast paced. M8 Competition Coupe. Over to you there, Zac.

ZAC PALMER: Yeah, speaking of BMWs, M8 Competition Coupe. I had yet to drive an M8 before this one. This is the refresh for the for the 8 Series, so slightly different now, slightly different rear end, better tech, et cetera. But really, the story here is that 4.4l twin turbo V8, 617 horsepower. Super quick eight speed automatic.

This thing is a rocket ship. I think it's in the top three as far as fastest cars that I've ever driven. I was-- I was checking out the "Car and Driver" was 0 to 60 times for it. They got 2.6. And I believe every minute of that. You get that 2.6 when you do the launch control, which is unlike any other BMW launch control that I've tried.

Even versus an M5, it is far more violent off the line. So, yeah, power for days. And it handles all right, but you can tell it's a big grand tour at heart. It's sort of like a big grand tour with some M influence to it. It's not a track car. I wouldn't try to do anything like that. But you'll get a lot of stoplight cred. Got thumbs ups constantly all throughout the week with it.

The one that I had was this really, really nice Brooklyn gray metallic with that orange interior. So, yeah, it was it was an eye-catching car. I think the refresh made it even prettier than it was beforehand. Yeah, I really, really like this thing. I was chatting with Associate Editor Byron Hurd, who also spent some time with it this week. And he was telling me that it's his new favorite BMW.

I'm not sure if I would go that far with it. I really, really liked it. But I think, it was it was a little harsh if you're going to be using it as sort of a daily or a long trip car, as one might do with an 8 Series. And ultimately, I will come back to the price. This thing was $153,000. I will probably take a Lexus LC 500 every single day of the week and pay about $100,000 to $110,000 for that vehicle.

The one thing you miss out on with the LC is trunk space. And I actually used this M8. I drove down to Ann Arbor and I loaded a bunch of tubing gear into it, like, four people worth of stuff in this massive trunk. It's like an S-class sized trunk. And we went tubing. It was awesome. Just had a lazy river and all of our stuff fit. That's what you don't get in LC, but forget that, because LC is more fun to drive.

GREG MIGLIORE: That's kind of awesome. You went tubing with the M8.

JOEL STOCKSDALE: What kind of M8?

GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah. That's not what I would have thought you would have done, but that's cool.

ZAC PALMER: It was-- it was funny.

GREG MIGLIORE: All right.

ZAC PALMER: It worked.

GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah, I believe it, I believe it. This is an interesting car, I think, for BMW. I kind of like the 8 Series more than I think most people do. I think other people tend to, when you get to this price point and this level of performance, they kind of peel out and find something different from Porsche, or you mentioned Lexus. Just, there's many options for what you can do here. But I don't know, I mean, there's a lot to like about this car.

I tend to follow the Byron's camp. It's just-- it's-- it can be a lot of fun. And I sort of like the design, too. I mean, when I come to my automotive enthusiasm, I can be very much like, well, that car looks good, let's figure out more about why I might like it. And that's also where the Z sort of falls on the ledger for me, as well.

So all right, well, that's the M8 competition. Hellcat Durango. Over to you there, Joel, for this one. Did you go-- what did you do with this? That's the one you would think you would go to the lake with, or with a river. But I don't know.

JOEL STOCKSDALE: Yeah, well, and with the Hellcat Durango, I've mostly just kind of run some errands locally. Took my dog to the vet in it. Which actually, I kind of wish that-- it's got a-- it's got second row captain's chairs, the big center console, and I've got a fairly big dog. And he's able to sit up in the seat and stuff, but it would be nice if it actually had a bench seat in the back that he could actually lay down on. That's just a small aside.

And that's not really the main reason you're buying a Durango Hellcat. You're buying a Durango Hellcat because it's a Hellcat, and it's got the supercharged V8 under the hood. And it's just as hilarious of an engine as it's always been. And in the case of the Durango, it's also paired with all-wheel drive. So you can have all-weather capability.

And presumably, if you're in the right circumstances and drive it hard enough, you can probably do four wheel burnouts with it. And as hilarious as it is, and also, what's kind of interesting, I was driving it on the highway. At least around metro Detroit, I think people that are in the know, will spot the Hellcat badge and know that it's something special.

Because it was a one-year only model a couple of years ago, but they brought it back for one last-- one final year this year to round it out along with the Charger and Challenger. And people around here that know things, know that it's something special. There was a couple in a Charger 392 on the highway that was looking over at me and eyeing the car.

Now the thing is, hilarious as it is, and fun, I kind of see why it's not something that has become a regular production model for Dodge. Because it feels a little bit more compromised than a regular SRT. The suspension is a fair bit stiffer, and not as comfortable. And the engine is louder. There's quite a bit more exhaust noise. And it can start to wear on you after a little while.

And the thing is, while it's hilarious to have a three-row people mover with a supercharged V8, you should ask yourself why I'm getting this, when say, I could have like an actual Hellcat Challenger or Charger instead, which would be lighter and faster. And I think the all-wheel drive actually hurts a little bit of the handling. It feels like it's a little bit more under steering, like the nose is a little heavier.

Because the other thing is, if you-- if you're owning vehicles like this, it's probably not the only car in your garage. And so if you're going to go out and buy that special, like Hellcat something, why wouldn't you get the Charger or Challenger that's going to feel a little bit faster and more fun and more exciting, and say, I don't know, buy a regular Durango as your people mover or car hauler or something?

It's fun. It's just, I don't know that it makes a whole lot of sense, except for those collectors that want that weird rare thing. Because it's like if you're taking like a long family road trip or something, you'll be a lot more comfortable in say a Durango SRT, not the Hellcat, the regular SRT, or even a Durango RT, and you'll get better fuel economy. It'll be more comfortable, it'll be quieter.

And the SRT and even the RT still has a bit of rumble to it, but it's just a little bit more civilized and a little bit more well rounded for what it actually has to do. So I guess that's the thing. It's the Hellcat powertrain I think makes it less usable as a practical vehicle, and the practical parts of it make it not as fun of a Hellcat. So it's just kind of this weird thing. It's neat and silly and I'm glad that some of them exist, but I also totally get why it never quite became a regular production model.

GREG MIGLIORE: OK, yeah, I see where you're going there. I mean, if you're talking about three-row supercharged SUVs, I mean, I think Land Rover could help you out with that. Slightly different price point, but this thing's probably not cheap. So yeah, I don't know. This almost seemed like a passion project that only Dodge would do for you. That's great.

I think that's-- they could do it. They can-- they're not losing money on it, that's how they want to do it, sure, go for it.

ZAC PALMER: It's funny, though, because they are being sued over making it again now.

GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah, that's right. There was that one guy, I forget what state he was in, he said, I bought this as a limited edition and now your factory is cranking them out again. It's not what I paid for. I mean, you would have to make the case that this is materially hurting your value, the value of your car. And if so, not only theoretically is it-- like, do you have a buyer who's going to pay the value for your 2000 and whatever 19 Durango? I don't know.

ZAC PALMER: I think it's great. It gives me the same vibes as when Porsche made the 911R and they're like, yeah, this is it, this is the manual GT3 everybody's ever wanted with no [? wing, ?] blah, blah, blah. And then they went for stupid prices. And Porsche was like, actually, we're going to make this thing called the GT3 Touring. And all of you flippers can sort of go to hell.

GREG MIGLIORE: Cool.

ZAC PALMER: So, here we are again, and Dodge is cranking them out. I say, let's get as many of them out there as we can. It's a very special vehicle that we'll probably look back on in 30, 40 years, as like, what were we doing back then?

GREG MIGLIORE: Crazy, yeah.

ZAC PALMER: But happy that it exists.

GREG MIGLIORE: And here's the thing. One additional year of production of this is not going to devalue those of that original run probably at all.

ZAC PALMER: Not at all.

GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah, because there's going to be people that are like, oh, yeah, that's that weird, crazy three-row supercharged all-wheel drive Dodge thing. It's like, I don't know. People get really hung up over being like one year production or first year kind of stuff. And it's like, to a certain extent I can understand it, but it's like, this is still going to be such a limited run vehicle, that regardless, it's going to be still rare and desirable.

You guys are making the case for the collectible value of the Durango Hellcat. I didn't really see this turn of the podcast coming, but OK, I like it. It's yeah, I think our Mopar friends are probably giving you a Hellcat hell yeah. So, all right. Never been really a huge fan of Durango, to be honest. It's just like, it's huge.

It's got-- I like the interior enough. It's good visibility and yeah, put a Hemi in it, it's a lot of fun to drive. But to me, I was always like, hey, let's more of like Tahoe territory or if going to spend that kind of money and you're going domestic, you could get a decent Lincoln for that type of cash, too, in some cases.

So I digress. Since we're talking Dodge, let's talk Dodge Hornet. I have spent a better part of a week now in the Dodge Hornet GT Plus. This has got the two liter Hurricane four. Sticker was not cheap. A little more than I thought it might be. It's $44,160. Get a lot of stuff for that, including the Acapulco Gold paint color, which people liked.

I was just looking out my front window the other day and the Mercedes AMG GLE 63-- GLE 53 had already arrived, and some guy was walking his dog. And he's like walking around, and like, yeah, Mercedes looks pretty good. Yeah, people always like an AMG. Realized he was circling the Hornet still. Oh, OK. People are interested in the Hornet. There's not that many on the road. He was probably looking at the [? beds, ?] too, a little bit.

So it got a bit of attention. This-- my thoughts after driving this for a week is, I kind of wonder if this is going to fall into that same, will this be the Dodge Dart or will this be the Dodge Neon for modern day Dodge? And by that, I mean the Neon was a success. It in some ways, redefined the domestic compact car segment. It sold well for years.

Enthusiasts like some of the performance versions of it. It ended up turning into the Caliber, which aside from that, was it an SRT4 they had. That was a little more of an up and down thing, let's put it that way. But overall, the Neon was good. The Dart was a compact sedan, somewhat based on the Giulietta, if I believe. Didn't do as much for Dodge. It was a decent product. It really was, but it just didn't beat anything. It was just sort of either good enough or almost good enough, at a time when there was still a lot of good compact cars, compact sedans. Didn't do enough.

So I'm just like, after driving this thing, it's different, it's attractive. You would expect it to be, because it's an Alfa Romeo with a Hornet on the front fender. Drives OK. That nine speed automatic is a little, I don't know, it's a little uneven, if you will, that you're working with the four cylinder turbo. So yeah, it's spunky, but it's not the most refined experience, if you will.

Yeah, I mean, it's-- I'll be very curious. I don't feel like I need more time with this car, and I'm curious to see what other people are going to think. Is this going to actually dislodge anything in the segment? It's pretty small. They're calling it a compact crossover I think SUV, which if you read Byron Hurd's "First Drive," he tries to explain how they approach all of those different elements. All I can think, is that sounds like it's pretty good for SEO if you're just going to call your car all of those things.

Painted black wheels that look really good. I think that's strong. You get-- the design is very strong. This would also add the tech pack and the blacktop package. So you get some kind of gloss black paint around the windows. The Hornet badges are all dark. That's kind of cool. You get the dark GT badge, as well.

One thing that you'll also notice, maybe when you guys drive this, is it's surprisingly lifted. I feel like without sort of like the ride height being what it is, it would be very easy to say this thing is just a hatchback. I mean, I was literally looking at it next to the GLE, which granted, this is a Mercedes AMG, which is probably lowered.

It's got the huge wide wheels with the flares on the fenders. This is about the lowest you could get a GLE versus a normal one. But it's like-- it's lifted to the point where I'm kind of like, I wouldn't say cartoonishly so, but they're saying it's a crossover. It reminds me a little bit of the Ford, what was that thing? The Ecosport that was so little, but they were like, no, it's a crossover. And then they lifted it well off the ground. It's a little bit of that.

Drives OK. Like I said, it's spunky. It looks pretty good. Interior is fine. There is some room in there. I threw a car seat in the back, picked up groceries, all the things you're going to do with the small crossover. But I'll be interested to see sort of where people end up kind of rating this in the overall field.

Because right now, I think it's cool. I'm not sure it really is knocking off any of the frontrunners. But again, it's interesting. It's-- for $44,000, this one seems a little high, but there's a lot of different things on there that you don't have to get. If you don't want to pay that, you can get one much closer to $38,000. So, yeah, that is the Hornet. Looking forward to getting maybe a little more time in it later in the year.

JOEL STOCKSDALE: Yeah, it's funny that you bring up the ride height thing, because there's a GLH version that they've been showing with a bunch of Mopar parts that they'll be offering. And one of the key things on that is a suspension lowering kit. And the change in appearance is dramatic. And I think very much for the good. Like, I think the lowered one looks way better. And it's a dramatic difference in height. It's got to be at least, it's 1 and 1/2 to 2 inches lower.

ZAC PALMER: It looks slammed.

JOEL STOCKSDALE: Yeah.

ZAC PALMER: It's low.

JOEL STOCKSDALE: And granted, I mean, even at that level, it still looks completely drivable. It's not-- it's still very usable, but it definitely brings it more into that hatchback territory than it does crossover. And again, I think that is to the benefit of the way the vehicle looks, and probably somewhat, too, the way it drives. I'm looking forward to seeing what these kind of upgraded versions are like. I'm also looking forward to seeing what the plug-in hybrid is like to drive.

GREG MIGLIORE: All right, sounds good. So let's transition over. We started with the Nissan. Well, Nissan slash Toyota. We'll end with a Nissan Armada. This thing's a beast. I have not driven this new one yet. What do you think there, Joel?

JOEL STOCKSDALE: Yeah. And it's another fairly old Nissan. It's been around for a number of years now.

GREG MIGLIORE: Historic.

JOEL STOCKSDALE: And it's also kind of interesting, because it's very much been kind of a Toyota Land Cruiser competitor. But at the moment, we are Land Cruiser-less, at least for a little while. And I was surprised. I actually was rather enjoying driving the Armada. It has a lot of old school charm to it that I think has been lost with a lot of full-size SUVs.

The visibility is fantastic. It's got a very-- it's very upright, greenhouse big windows, short dash. You can see really well. It also does not feel as massive as a lot of other full-size SUVs, like Tahoe and Sequoia and Expedition. And I think some of that is probably because it is based on the global market Nissan Patrol.

So it probably is a bit more dimensionally constrained, because it has to be sold in some markets that do not have this kind of space that the US does. So it feels a little bit more narrow and not quite as long and bulky. And the interior on this one was extremely plush. And it did feel kind of old school plush, too. Very glossy wood and kind of that gathered leather trim. So it's got kind of the wrinkles in it and stuff.

Definitely-- and sort of the driving feel, too, it was kind of old school. It probably not quite as smooth and ironed out as some of the more modern SUVs, but the whole thing about it kind of feels a little bit like a very high end luxury SUV from about somewhere between 10 to 20 years ago. Just kind of the proportions and the size and the materials and a lot of that stuff.

But I say that lovingly, because it does also feel like it's put together really well. The fit and finish is very good. One of the things that's really nice is that it actually has quite good steering feel. It's weighty, it's got some feedback, it feels-- I would need to double check, but it almost feels like it's got a hydraulic power steering system, which I wouldn't be surprised if it did, because it is kind of an old SUV.

But yeah, I really rather enjoyed it. It's got a big old-- it's got a big old V8 in it that's very rumbly, and it's got great torque. It's actually fairly quick. Very smooth automatic transmission. Really spacious interior. And the materials, like the style feels kind of old, but the quality feels very high. It does have Nissan's current infotainment system, which works quite nicely.

GREG MIGLIORE: That's surprising, to be honest.

JOEL STOCKSDALE: Yeah. And they integrated it very well. It kind of sits on top of the dash, but it looks fairly well integrated, and it's in a spot that's really easy to read and to access. For a lot of the reasons that I think people have liked the Forerunner and the Lexus GX, I think a lot of that applies to this Nissan.

And kind of a bonus for it, is that it's got kind of an old school V8 that's kind of fun to rumble around in. I mean, maybe not super efficient, but then, also Forerunner and GX aren't efficient either, and people love them. So there's a lot of charm to the Armada.

Obviously, it's not for everyone. And I think objectively, stuff like Chevy Tahoe and Ford Expedition are objectively better in a lot of ways. A lot more space, more up to date powertrains, better handling and things, but for the plushness, the material quality, and just kind of charm, the Armada's got something to it.

ZAC PALMER: I really like the update that they made to it a few years ago. I mean, it basically has the QX80 cabin at this point, honestly, which kind of-- it kind of kills the reason to buy an Infiniti QX80.

JOEL STOCKSDALE: Yeah, I was thinking about that. I was like, I don't know why you would spend the extra money for the Infiniti, because the Nissan is basically identical now. And I would argue, it looks better on the outside.

ZAC PALMER: I'd have to agree there, too. So yeah, amongst those two, the Armada is head and shoulders the one to go for right now, I feel. I don't know that I love it as much as you Joel, but I do like it and I respect what they're going for. This is sort of my quick take on the Armada.

GREG MIGLIORE: Right. Yeah, I don't know. When I googled this and it came up with 2023 Nissan Armada, I kind of did a double take. I was like, sure it's not 2013? It's a dated thing, but all right, take your word on it, guys.

Randomness every week on the podcast, I've been asking people random things. Last week, I tried to get Jeremy to tell me what his favorite chicken sandwich was, like the chicken sandwich wars. And he came up with a sub. It's like, all right, that's one way to play the game. So this week, the "Detroit Free Press" had the best month of the year in Michigan. And I somewhat agree with the ratings.

They talk about how it it's October. It's cider mill, it's football, it's gorgeous colors, full tilt. And it's cool, but we like it cool here, right? So-- and then they kind of work their way backwards. July is up there. And I can see why. July is-- this July has been kind of weird, as has June, with the air quality and the either heat or sort of lack thereof. You guys tell me, best month of the year in Michigan, or we'll say the Midwest.

ZAC PALMER: I have always been a September guy, I think. I appreciate where they're going for with October. But there-- I mean, I don't know, just recent years maybe has made me think differently. But there's just been some really cold weeks in October--

GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah.

ZAC PALMER: --that I haven't necessarily loved. September, I feel like you still get some embers of. summer. There's some really nice warm days in there. Really, really ideal for driving. If you want to go drive around with a top off. Yeah, September for me. October might be a close second, though. Fall is without a doubt, my favorite season. So I largely agree, I think. Maybe just one month off.

GREG MIGLIORE: How about you, Joel?

JOEL STOCKSDALE: Yeah, I think I would lean toward kind of September, October as kind of the best. I think maybe in part also, because the weather tends to be slightly more predictable about that time of year. But would also kind of lean towards sort of May, June. I'm skipping over July. And that's saying something, because July is when my birthday is. So I'm a little bit biased toward July.

However, I feel like May and June, you avoid sort of the super high heat and humidity that we sometimes get in kind of July and August around here. So I kind of lean toward those months a little bit more. And that's also when we're finally getting out of the long Michigan winter. So it feels really good when it's finally warming up and you can finally get out of the house again. So, yeah, either kind of May, June or September, October, those are kind of the sweet spots.

GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah, I'd agree with all of that. I mean, I do like it cold. Nothing wrong with cold in the winter sometimes, but July is great. You could literally golf until 9:30 at night or whatever you want to do till-- it's light so late around here. September, I do tend to agree with you guys a little bit in the fact that I mean, unfortunately, somewhat due to climate change, it hasn't been as much of a fall month it seems in the last few years around here. It's been almost like a summer month.

Then October has been borderline winter it seems like, which is frustrating for those of us that like fall. But September is definitely, I would say at this point, almost an annex of summer, where you could you could do whatever you want in summer or in September.

So, all right, let's spend some money. We have-- this comes from the archives thread. It's a good one. Should I get a manual? 2003 Porsche 911 Carrera with 75,000 miles for $30,000. Is this a good buy or is this foolish? A little more context here. This would essentially be my daily driver to and from work. If I can fit a child seat in there, that's-- it would be the daycare runner.

Currently driving a 2013 Jetta with 160 grand on the clock, plagued by a Telluride at the end of the year. Looking for something fun to drive, but not sure if this car would be more of a headache than it's worth. I have zero experience fixing cars and not looking for a project. So what do we think? You're looking for something fun. Apparently, this 2003 manual 911 is available to the writer, thus the question, kind of a thumbs up or thumbs down. What do you guys think?

ZAC PALMER: Honestly, he's opened a very big can of worms. I bought a 2004 Boxster S last fall, and I probably spent like a good year plus really diving deep into all of these values. And how much it's worth is very dependent on the specific vehicle, I would say. One Porsche that's silver with a black interior might be worth $25,000. One that's a really awesome, like a Rainforest Green with a green matching interior could be worth $50,000.

I think it really, really depends on the on the specific car, because Porsche values will really vary wildly there. You also got to look at-- so, you're looking at a 2003 Porsche, that's the IMS issue right there. So the intermediate shaft bearing. Those Grenade engines, if they're not done. And it's not like-- like, there's-- it's not a small chance that it could happen. It happens a lot, unfortunately.

And that is, if you get one with it's done, beautiful. It's also worth more money if it's been done. If you buy one and it hasn't been done, it's about $7,000 to $8000. So that is a very, very influential marker on how much you're going to pay. Find one '03, 75,000 miles for $30,000, that's a really tough question for me to answer yes or no, honestly.

If has all the things that you want in there, I'd say that's a really good deal, because those can go for much more. They could also go for much less. If it doesn't have a history of service, if there's been an engine replaced, if it doesn't have the IMS replaced, it's-- the values are all over the map.

The fact you don't have any experience working cars, and you don't want to work on one, I think that's fine. There's a bunch-- there's a million indy shops for Porsches out there that will happily take your money and lots of it to work on it. But you don't necessarily have to know how to work on it to own this old Porsche. Yeah, I don't think that that was a good answer for what you want, but it is an answer that I will provide.

GREG MIGLIORE: Well, I think you know too much is the answer.

ZAC PALMER: Yeah, maybe.

GREG MIGLIORE: How about you, Joel?

JOEL STOCKSDALE: I would be-- I would be tempted to pull the trigger on that, because that seems like not a huge number of miles, although granted, I'm not-- I haven't been diving deep into shopping for Porsches and things. I would say, though, because you may want to be budgeting for service and potential problems down the line.

And for that reason, I would maybe say looking at something else might be the way to go. And actually, something that I'm kind of thinking, and feel free to disagree with me or not, I'm kind of thinking maybe a, year or two old, or I mean, if your budget allows, maybe even a new BRZ or GT86. Or I guess GR86.

That's another. Boy, we should have just like a thing where we gripe about names for things. How many names is the FRS86 had? Because it was FRS first as a Scion, and then became a Toyota as an 86. Now it's the GR86 to make it in line with the GR Supra. Anyway, I'm digressing especially. But that car, the BRZ 86 twins, I think might actually be kind of a smart move here, because it'll be a lot cheaper up front if you're buying used.

Or the $30,000 budget would actually allow you to buy possibly a new one with a warranty. And it's got a back seat that it would surely be as roomy as a 911, and would give you a little bit of car seat flexibility. It's something that you can have serviced at your Toyota or Subaru dealer, and parts should be way cheaper.

And it's also an absolute hoot to drive. It's super engaging. It's got kind of the same sort of low center of gravity that you'd expect from a lot of Porsches. Amazing steering. Maybe not quite as quick, but compared with a 2003 911, I mean, yeah, it'd probably be a little slower, but not like by a giant margin, like a newer one.

GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah, I'd buy all of that. I think what I would do, just given the sort of the premise of this question, I would just go thumbs down, play the field. You got better options. If it's this or anything else, I would play the odds. I think it's-- there's a lot we don't know, and that's fine. Maybe this is a gem with so many of the issues Zac laid out cleared up.

But I mean, if there's 50-50, some of the stuff's cleared up, some of it's not, maybe there's some stuff even the potential buyer doesn't know. To me, that's still a fair amount of money and a fair amount of miles that raises some red flags. So might be a good deal, but kind of hard to say.

ZAC PALMER: Yeah, your $30,000 911 could turn into a $40,000 911 very quickly. On the plus side, you buy that car, the value is only going up. I will say that.

GREG MIGLIORE: That's true.

ZAC PALMER: So at this point, that generation of 911, the first water-cooled one, it's reached its bottom and it's on a steady walk upwards.

GREG MIGLIORE: All right, sounds good. That's all the time we have this week. We hope you enjoyed the Supra verses Z compare 'em. Thanks for joining me, guys. Everybody be safe out there this week. Five stars on Apple podcasts, Spotify, wherever you get the show. If you'd like to get into the mailbag or spend my money, that's podcast@autoblog.com. Have a great week, everybody. We'll see you next time.

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